Two Guys Talk Software with Local Business Leader Tim Goetz of Aplos



Tim Goetz

Aplos

Derek Scharton

The Well Community Church

Fund Accounting

Every Neighborhood Partnership

Neighborhood Thrift

Sermon Spice

Know Your Guest

Habitat for Humanity Fresno

Dan Kimball

How to start a nonprofit.?

What’s On Your Mind?

Out of town tree trimmers!

Cow Lasso

13th (Show on Netflix) 

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TRANSCRIPT (Transcribed by AI, so not 100% accurate:)

060820_TimGoetz

[00:00:00] [00:00:00] Two Guys Open: [00:00:00] this is the two guys talking Fresno podcast, the podcast with two guys talking about Fresno. Your hosts are Craig Chardan, a lifelong Fresno who loves his community, even though it drives him bonkers. And Paul square gin, a transplant for us nun. Who’s lived in Fresno for more years than he has it. And he wouldn’t live anywhere else.
[00:00:24] It’s time for two guys to talk. Fresno. Here’s Craig and Paul on the two guys talking Fresno podcast.
[00:00:32]Paul Swearengin: [00:00:32] All right. And we’re still a social distancing and, and working through zoom here. And hi, Craig, how are you today?
[00:00:40] Craig Scharton: [00:00:40] Good, Paul, how are you?
[00:00:41] Paul Swearengin: [00:00:41] Good. Has the governor allowed us to come? I mean, when are we going to be able to see each other face to face and do this?
[00:00:48]Craig Scharton: [00:00:48] well, I think we probably could. I think we’re essential.
[00:00:56] Paul Swearengin: [00:00:56] True enough.
[00:00:56] Craig Scharton: [00:00:56] I am. I am still the, although I’m a little less [00:01:00] conservative about it than I was, but I’m still being pretty darn careful. Cause I don’t want to get this thing, but,
[00:01:06] Paul Swearengin: [00:01:06] it’s a weird, it’s a weird space. I I’ve I’ve had people ask me to meet out and I’ve said no, thus far until Wednesday, I’m going to have my first.
[00:01:16] Lunch date in a while, and I’m still a little freaked out by it. I’m not sure exactly what it’s going to look like, but I’m going to venture out and try it. And I think my son’s going to start baseball practice this week. So it just, it feels still a little odd to be thinking about life.
[00:01:34] Craig Scharton: [00:01:34] Yeah. Well, and I, you know, as we’ve talked about it, I’m a little bit on the, a little bit age sides, definitely asthma and all of that.
[00:01:41] So I’m, I’m gonna. I’m going to play it a little more, or probably quite a bit more defensively than, than I would. We were talking about that. If I were 32, I’d probably be first one at the pub or whatever. Nothing can hurt me.
[00:01:59] Paul Swearengin: [00:01:59] I’m looking [00:02:00] forward to face to face meetings. Cause I am kind of tired of zoom meetings, but now I got to start thinking in terms of drive time again, and I’ve totally lost.
[00:02:09] All sense of drive time around meetings. So it’s going to, I’m going to have to readjust to that.
[00:02:14] Tim Goetz: [00:02:14] Well, with
[00:02:15] Craig Scharton: [00:02:15] my computers I’ve and zoom I’ve realized that I still have to get to my meetings 10 minutes early. It’s just like when I was driving, just to make sure the damn things up and up and zoom lets me end up my own meetings and all of that.
[00:02:30] Paul Swearengin: [00:02:30] I think one thing that’s going to be interesting as I is, is truly the, the, the protests, have not been socially distanced as we’ve seen. And, and I even heard some. Some leaders in the black community saying over the weekend, like, Hey, don’t forget your masks. Don’t forget to try it as social distance as you can.
[00:02:49] So it’s be interesting to see if we have some spikes that come out of, out of protest and we pray not, but it’ll be interesting to see in a couple of weeks, if there are numbers on that.
[00:03:01] [00:03:00] Craig Scharton: [00:03:01] Well, I’m just, when I do meet with people it’s outside, I, I do feel a lot safer.
[00:03:06] Paul Swearengin: [00:03:06] Yeah, that’s a, that’s a big thing, but yeah, I mean, pro sports are gonna start up again without crowds, I guess.
[00:03:14] And so we’re just gonna start feeling our way back into this thing. And as I’ve talked to people in healthcare, you know, they kind of say this yet, some points you gotta be exposed at some point, we have to have that, that herd immunity and find out if we have it or not. And so I guess we’re just leaning into that a little bit.
[00:03:31] Craig Scharton: [00:03:31] Yeah, well, the Oakland A’s are way ahead of the curve playing without crowds for decades.
[00:03:39] Paul Swearengin: [00:03:39] Yeah. Well introduce our guests.
[00:03:41] Craig Scharton: [00:03:41] I love the can. I’ve been to their games when they were in 2000 people in the stands
[00:03:47] Paul Swearengin: [00:03:47] you can kid because you love.
[00:03:49] Craig Scharton: [00:03:49] Exactly. Tim gets is our guest booth. That’s a little bit of a tongue
[00:03:54] Tim Goetz: [00:03:54] twister.
[00:03:55] Craig Scharton: [00:03:55] It’s the CEO of Apple close, which is a, [00:04:00] locally headquartered technology company. And just for disclaimer purposes, my brother, works for and that had absolutely no bearing on us, getting to him or, even thinking about it until I. So I’m yesterday and went, Oh yeah, I should tell you we’re here having them on the show tomorrow.
[00:04:18] So, I don’t think he has a razor, a bonus coming because he’s talking to Fresno podcast. That’s
[00:04:28] Paul Swearengin: [00:04:28] good to see you too.
[00:04:30] Craig Scharton: [00:04:30] Yeah. Tell us about, we’ll ask you about yourself in a little bit, but, how did you come up with the idea for and tell us what you guys do. All right.
[00:04:39] Tim Goetz: [00:04:39] Yeah. Thanks. yeah, so, I, I, it starts kind of back in, 2008, 2009.
[00:04:46] I was the executive pastor at the well community church. And, we were using QuickBooks for our accounting, and in the church and nonprofit space, you have to do your accounting a specific way. You have to do fund accounting. [00:05:00] So you can track that money separately. and, you know, my background isn’t in is accounting.
[00:05:05] I’m a CPA. And, we always struggled to get the reports out of QuickBooks that we needed. and, at one point I, I knew it was, we needed to do fund accounting. And so I started searching for fund accounting software. And, the only thing I could find back then does a product by Blackbaud called financial edge.
[00:05:25] It was. A desk, it was a down, it was a product where you to host your own servers and put it on your servers. And it was tens of thousands of dollars and it just was not realistic for a church or most nonprofits to it stopped. And, my, my assistant at the time at the church was. A lady named Darlene Hanson.
[00:05:45]she was, Eric Hansen’s is Eric. Cancer’s his wife. And she would come in and put up with me at the office for, you know, 20 hours, 30 hours a week. And so I asked her, I said, Hey, can I can’t find anything? Can you help find something? And she [00:06:00] says, she comes in to report that weeks later. I, I can’t find anything.
[00:06:04] And I said, my reaction was, man. Eventually someone’s going to do something about that. and I’m an entrepreneur. I love starting things. I love blazing new trail. I, I have a CPA license, but I am, I, I enjoy risk. so I, you know, that was my comment. And I guess she went home and told doc, you know, Eric and at a staff retreat at the well, Eric one point corners me at a dinner and says, Hey, that software thing, you should do it.
[00:06:37] I’m like what, what software thing? And he says the accounting software thing. The thing that Darlene told me about I’m like, Eric, I just, I don’t want to do anything about it. I was just complaining about it.
[00:06:51] Paul Swearengin: [00:06:51] Isn’t that the way isn’t that our way, just let me complain.
[00:06:55] Tim Goetz: [00:06:55] Right? So he goes, no, really you should do it all.
[00:06:59] I’ll [00:07:00] help fund it and you do it and we’ll figure it out from there. And I’m like, ah, and this is how naive I was on the technology side of things. I have, my response was Eric, it could cost like a hundred thousand dollars. We’re like, yeah. We’re like, yeah, we’re, we’re, we’re a little beyond that at this point of investment, into building a software, you know?
[00:07:20] So. anyhow, I, I started thinking, man, well, shoot, I guess I need to look at this maybe through a different lens. Like, are there, is there really nobody out there and how many pages back to that quick on Google. And so I started looking at it and I wanted to build a easy to use fund accounting product for the nonprofit space.
[00:07:42] So Apolis means simple in Greek. We wanted it to be easy to use. Accounting is scary and. Most nonprofits don’t have an accountant doing their books. It’s a, it’s a volunteer, it’s a, a business savvy or administrative type brain person. [00:08:00] and it’s just, it’s just scary. So we wanted to create something easy to use.
[00:08:04]it doesn’t have to be scary. It doesn’t have to say debits and credits, you know, but we wanted to do it for the nonprofit space. Built for nonprofits is fund accounting. and it was about that time that, both E every neighborhood partnership and neighborhood thrifts got started, and those guys were setting that up and they’re asking me, Hey, well, so what should we use for our County software?
[00:08:24] And I’m, I’m like quick, I think, like you might run into problems later, and I’m not, I’m going to move away from it, but I don’t know what else to suggest, you know? And so. that kind of solidified it. we started the company in April of 2009 and God going. So that was kind of how it got started quickly evolved from there, from an accounting product.
[00:08:50] I mean, we, we launched, we end up launching the web based product in may of 2011 and it was a free trial. It was first to market [00:09:00] as far as web based. in fund accounting, even QuickBooks online, hadn’t really gone mainstream yet that took zero entering the space to do that, to, to make them do that. and, but as soon as we launched, we started getting customers and, I, I called, I’ll never forget.
[00:09:17] Well, you know, I had to write, I had to write down these tickets and the ticket basically is what the engineer then takes bill writing tickets. Like I’m full time job. I’m working at the well. And so nights and weekends for two years, right? It was after, right. How do you mean bill the accounting software button when you click it?
[00:09:38] What does it do? You know? And I’d explain it to, you know, non accountants it’s this is what you need to do, you know? And I I’ll never forget. I was up late one night. It was probably, you know, it was probably. One in the morning, Pacific time and we get an email, and it was, you know, from PayPal, you have [00:10:00] cash and I’m like, how did this person find us?
[00:10:03] This was like our second or third customer. And there’s a phone number on there. I’m like, You Google app Los software and we wouldn’t even show up if you searched her own name, how did he find us? So I can’t help it. I just want to know in the morning I’m calling this guy. And so I titled the number and I was calling Ohio.
[00:10:24] So it was three in the morning. And, the guy whispers and answer he’s like, hello? And I’m like, I am so sorry. I’m so sorry. Hi, my name is Tim I’m from app loafs. I have a question for you in the guy who starts laughing hysterically. Any other end? He’s like your support is incredible. I literally just bought the product
[00:10:52] and anyhow, he was depressed. Yeah, right. So he was doing his giving statements at the end of the year. And he [00:11:00] was up at three in the morning because he was using QuickBooks and they don’t do that. And he was fed up. He said, I’m not going to bed until I find a replacement for this next year, because I’m not doing this again next year.
[00:11:11] So that, that was one of our first customers.
[00:11:13] Paul Swearengin: [00:11:13] And when was this?
[00:11:15] Tim Goetz: [00:11:15] That was, that would have been in 2009 11. So we launched a web based product and in may of 2011, And, we also very quickly found out that the, these, the customers are not just looking for accounting software. They, they, at the end of the year they ask, where do I print my contribution statements for my donors?
[00:11:36] It’s like, well, that’s not really an accounting thing. That’s a CRM thing like that has all their people and their addresses. Which you don’t do in your accounting product, but they were expecting it to be in there. And so we added it, and then they wanted to be able to key in their donations, not just the accounting transactions.
[00:11:54] And so we added it and they wanted to process money online, so they didn’t have to just record them. [00:12:00] But they could actually process them. And so we added that and then it kind of went from there. At this point, it’s a full, we have a, it’s a full platform. So we do everything, end to end. We do. on the back offices, it’s accounting software.
[00:12:15] We have an e-file product where we are authorized IRS IPAL providers. We filed taxes with the IRS. They’re nine nineties, on the front office. We do fundraising software that can process money. We do event registration, pledge tracking. we host their website. We have a DIY website and an email campaign thing.
[00:12:34] And beauty is it’s all in one. So. They don’t have to try and get QuickBooks to play nice with PayPal and constant contact and Wix. And it just all works.
[00:12:45] Paul Swearengin: [00:12:45] This is crazy. Like, how did I not know this? As you know, this I’ve been in the space until 2019, I was leading a church and we were cursing QuickBooks every year.
[00:12:55] How did I not know this? This is crazy. Well, this is amazing. Yeah. [00:13:00] And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve talked to them. To the Intuit people and said, do you realize how many churches there are in America and this, but they just, they already owned that space, I guess. So they didn’t have to be innovative.
[00:13:12] And so this is amazing that you found that that space to fill because there’s a lot of, not only a lot of churches, but a lot of and such out there, so bully for you. And I, I wish I had known earlier.
[00:13:27] Craig Scharton: [00:13:27] When I was an interim CEO at the downtown partnership, they didn’t have a database. And so, you know, I searched and looked for databases and, and, and the same kind of thing.
[00:13:41] I couldn’t find one that really worked for what we did. And, and there are, you know, how many cities in the country that have downtowns, they all have associations. They have. I can San Diego, they have 17 associations for their revitalization programs. I think Boston has [00:14:00] 60, something like that. And, and there was nothing tailored to the, the market.
[00:14:06] It was just crazy. And you just assume that these things are out
[00:14:09] Tim Goetz: [00:14:09] there, cause
[00:14:10] Craig Scharton: [00:14:10] the pain is big enough to
[00:14:12] Tim Goetz: [00:14:12] right.
[00:14:13] Craig Scharton: [00:14:13] Cause you weren’t trying to do it that you think it’s out there and it wasn’t. So someone has to follow through
[00:14:19] beyond the complaint.
[00:14:21] Tim Goetz: [00:14:21] Yeah. It’s been tough. I mean, we, you know, one of our challenges, I mean, we have a lot of customers in, in Fresno and in the Valley, but, I think we’re you know, a good secret also like, and I kind of blame that on our, our business model, the business strategy. I mean, we wanted to launch when it first launched it $11 and 99 cents a month, you know, I mean, it was, we wanted this thing to be low cost and for the smallest entities to be able to do this thing and with, with a product like that, the business model doesn’t justify a sales model.
[00:14:57] You have to, it has to be [00:15:00] automated. It has to be. And so we got really good at the weekends, the funnel. So our funnel, our funnel metrics and our unit economics. And it’s the only way that business could have ever got off the ground is if you’re going to, you know, if your revenue from a customer is $12 in a month, how much can you spend.
[00:15:19] Notifying the world that you exist to get that customer. and so we got, we got pretty good at that, but that meant it was digital marketing. It was not, you know, door to door. It wasn’t events, it wasn’t, you know? And so, yeah, it’s funny. We, we’ve got about, we’re about 8,000. most of them are in the U S but we have, we have customers in about 60 other countries.
[00:15:42]and so, I mean, we’re, we’re kind of all over the place and best kept secret in Fresno.
[00:15:50] We’re going to try to change that.
[00:15:54] Paul Swearengin: [00:15:54] Well, my mind is racing now, cause I know there’s tons of networks of churches out there and things. And so [00:16:00] there’s, there’s gotta be ways to connect them. But how so, how did you fund the, this more than $100,000 startup costs here?
[00:16:09] Tim Goetz: [00:16:09] Yeah. So, you know, honestly, Eric Hanson has been kind of my angel investor and this thing would not exist without him. And, he’s just been an amazing. Kind of mentor and support and partner. but ultimately we, we did, he did that first a hundred thousand and that quickly got you, you know, and
[00:16:29] Paul Swearengin: [00:16:29] burn through that.
[00:16:32] Tim Goetz: [00:16:32] And that’s in that also as well. It took so long to get going. I mean, it took two years and, once we got going, once we started to get customers, I call the Hanson and. He had been, you know, kind of aware and in the loop for those two years and watching us work. And, I got to know him very well and he got to know, and, I call him at one point and said, Hey, we are, we think it’s time to give this thing a go.
[00:16:55] And instead of it being a hobby on the nights and weekends and. I [00:17:00] want to ask your permission to raise around or to try to cause you’ll dilute, like I’ll D we will I’ll dilute. So I’d like your blessing on it. And he says, okay, how much, how much are you going to try and raise? And I said, one point $2 million.
[00:17:15] I said, I need, I need 50 grand a month for 24 months. I need two years to get this thing going. And this was in, December of 2011. And so he, He says, he says, okay, sounds good. I think I can do that. And I’m like, like what, like, do you, what do you mean? Like, what are the words that you’re saying mean?
[00:17:42] And so, he says, no, I think, I think I can do that. And I’m like, Eric, like, do you want to see a business plan? Like, do you have been seen, this is all on the phone. Migos, Tim. I know you, and I know you well enough to know if you’re thinking this is what we should do. I want to be, I want to be in on it.
[00:17:59] And [00:18:00] so that, that got us going. We opened our office here in Fresno. and that was our first couple of employees. And that’s when I first found, Derek Chardin. Yeah, I was, there are not many Java engineers in Fresno and definitely were even fewer in 2012, you know, and Derek was one of them. And, so that’s when I started, you know, hanging out with Derek and getting to be buddies with him.
[00:18:24] And, ultimately we got going 2012 and, kind of never looked back. We, we raised one other round in 2016. other than that, we just kind of doing it on our own budget.
[00:18:37] Paul Swearengin: [00:18:37] So your timing has to be incredible here. I would think because I think we’re seeing a shift. In the church world, particularly, I know everybody’s trying to move that giving online and into that automated giving and all of those good things.
[00:18:55] And so it seems like you’ve hit at the right time with a, with a [00:19:00] good, a good product that people are looking for in this kind of shift, season that we’re in.
[00:19:05] Tim Goetz: [00:19:05] Yeah, it’s been, that’s been interesting. We weren’t sure what was going to happen. I think kinda like everybody, there was just a lot of unknowns in mid March and it was like, w which way is up?
[00:19:16] Are we going to be okay? What’s happening here? And, so we were monitoring everything very closely and, as we went to shelter in place as a company, it was. It’s like, man, hang on, let’s see where this is going. And what happened was kind of a surprise. But, we had, we had about a thousand customers, a dog.
[00:19:37] I thought that they were using us for other products turn on or online giving product and start using that and turn and about a thousand turn on our text to give product. So we have the text to give option as well. And that’s how a lot of churches are ending. They’re ending their services. Now it’s an online service.
[00:19:52] And they end it with their phone number, say, okay, texts, we can’t pass a plate. So yeah. And then from there that can make it recurring and, [00:20:00] and we’re kind of lucky to have that product already live and ready to accept it. Here’s a thousand customers into it. and we, we then tried to rush out another product when all of everything was starting to shut down.
[00:20:13] It was a. A mass communication tool, we call it bulk texting and it’s a mass SMS product where these churches can, we’re able to basically say, Hey, we’re not going to have our services Sunday. Yeah. Texted out instead of email. Okay. So we we’ve got a number of products there, but the, there, there was a big shift online giving, And the other thing that happened for us at least, was it was it’s what I’ll call maybe the late adopters of cloud soft cloud accounting.
[00:20:44] So there were a lot of folks that were still on desks, top QuickBooks, and that top computer, where it was on was at their office and they’re not there anymore. And so there was an influx of folks also shopping for, to finally make that move to the cloud for their, [00:21:00] their books.
[00:21:02] Craig Scharton: [00:21:02] So what’s it like having a software company in Fresno?
[00:21:05] We used to have a software cluster. We called it
[00:21:09] Tim Goetz: [00:21:09] an
[00:21:09] Craig Scharton: [00:21:09] industry cluster and there were a few, but still not that many. Yeah. And it’s really great to see. So w but do you find the people that you need and how was
[00:21:22] Tim Goetz: [00:21:22] that? That, you know, it. It is, it’s been tough. you know, I, I, I really enjoy it. Like I said, I was like blazing new ground.
[00:21:31] I’m not afraid of risk. I’m not afraid of a challenge. and I, I think one thing that it gives us is, you know, we have a team of folks that I have a little bit of something to prove and a little bit of a chip on her shoulders. And I, I think that combination is, is. He’s deadly to our competitors.
[00:21:51] That’s what we want to do. But yeah, I don’t, it was, it was hard. I mean, it was hard, especially in the early years. I think, it was hard [00:22:00] finding folks. it was hard and not just, not just software engineers, but technology, company employees. So our marketing staff. Need to know how to market software through it, funnel where you’re driving traffic and free trials, and you’re wet.
[00:22:17] You’re split testing your website for free trial website conversion rate. You know, like that’s not a normal marketing theme. or at least it wasn’t. And same with the sales. Like the sales team had to sell something that you can’t hold and that’s just, that’s just not normal for the Valley. So it was hard to find it was hard to find people, We, we kind of just, it was then where we were not going to give up and we were going to make it happen.
[00:22:41]and I think at this point, we have about 85 employees. and I think at this point we’ve got a good, we have a really good group. I’m very pleased with the team that we have. And, what’s started to happen now is several things. I’d say one of them is. [00:23:00] Our, our team’s network is just that much bigger.
[00:23:03] So it’s a little easier to say, Oh, so-and-so knows. So and so, you know, and find people, we, we really like hiring people that way instead of just a, kind of a mass blast. but then it’s also easier to train up people. So, actually Derek, does something at the office, or at least when we were at the office office a couple of times a week, bill basically.
[00:23:25] Turn everything off. And I think it’s at four 30, and he’ll do Java classes with everybody, anyone that wants to be there. And it doesn’t matter if it’s a software engineer or not. It doesn’t matter if it’s a front end guy or back in guy, and it’s just, here’s a class. And so we’re kind of raising up our own folks.
[00:23:41]and then there’s also this other stuff that’s happening in Fresno with Jake and Irma Bitwise and the other tech companies that are starting here. have also started seeding that same kind of thing, which has made it easier to find folks, but it was hard. It was hard in 2009, 2010, 2011. That [00:24:00] was, those were hard times.
[00:24:01] Paul Swearengin: [00:24:01] Do you know the sermon spice guys?
[00:24:04] Tim Goetz: [00:24:04] Yeah, I do. yep.
[00:24:06] Paul Swearengin: [00:24:06] George 10 pounds.
[00:24:07] Tim Goetz: [00:24:07] Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So that’s another,
[00:24:10] Paul Swearengin: [00:24:10] it’s another church company in town, Craig that I, they, they do content for, you know, videos and things like that. People can send their videos and sell them through there. And so that’s another Fresno software sort of church.
[00:24:24] Aimed or not for profit aimed group there.
[00:24:27] Craig Scharton: [00:24:27] Yup. You just find that the agnostics never used any software.
[00:24:36] Paul Swearengin: [00:24:36] Well, there’s not there’s I don’t know if there’s
[00:24:38] Tim Goetz: [00:24:38] a ton
[00:24:38] Craig Scharton: [00:24:38] of other, we never have a convention. We never,
[00:24:42] Paul Swearengin: [00:24:42] there, there’s not a lot of other industries outside the church industry that gather hundreds of people every week. So it’s a pretty good, pretty good crop out there.
[00:24:51] Tim Goetz: [00:24:51] Yeah, we, and we’ve got a pretty good smattering across the nonprofit space we have about, you know, maybe 50% of our customers are [00:25:00] churches.
[00:25:00]about 40% are generic, just nonprofits and they span. The gamut of what a nonprofit is. I mean, the entire thing, and then we have about 10% that are member based entities. So this like clubs or rotary or lions. Yeah. Associations. So, and then we’ve got a product for them as well, to be able to have a group in boat on things and do fundraisers and that type of
[00:25:24] Craig Scharton: [00:25:24] well.
[00:25:25] So it’s, it amazes me really how people don’t really understand what economic development is.
[00:25:34] Tim Goetz: [00:25:34] Hmm.
[00:25:35] Craig Scharton: [00:25:35] And, and, you know, if you were to have like a hierarchy of the most important piece, it is what you do. It is people that develop something in our economy, our local economy that are servicing people away and they’re sending them onto our Island.
[00:25:53] Tim Goetz: [00:25:53] Right.
[00:25:53] Craig Scharton: [00:25:53] And, you know, we think about, Oh, you know, well, let’s build an, a big distribution center for some company [00:26:00] that’s located somewhere else and we’ll get jobs. What jobs are good. But ultimately you’ve got to have someone bring in revenue onto the, the Island for it to circulate, to do all those other things.
[00:26:12] So, you know, my, my plead to the community is if you are on a board of a nonprofit or a church, or, you know, someone who is, and we all do, I mean, pretty much everyone knows someone in the church or a nonprofit, like there should be a hundred percent of the
[00:26:30] Tim Goetz: [00:26:30] locals.
[00:26:31] Craig Scharton: [00:26:31] Using your service because ultimately that is going to change our, all of our economic trajectory.
[00:26:38] Right. I’d like to see some gigantic building downtown with Apolis across the top, because you just have so many customers. Right. You know, that that could work because when I drive to other cities or fly into other cities, that’s what I see when I go to those places. And corporate giving is more where you’re headquartered.
[00:26:58] So QuickBooks is giving way [00:27:00] more, more to Cleveland than they are to Fresno. Right. I don’t blame him. I love Cleveland, but, You know, it’s just, just the way it works. And, you know, we have no fortune 1000 companies in the Valley and we don’t even know how badly that affects our economy. Cause if you have a fortune 1000 company, they are spinning off just in case catering, you know, or just in video production or.
[00:27:26] All of these ancillary things and we can’t have that unless, and
[00:27:31] Tim Goetz: [00:27:31] people
[00:27:31] Paul Swearengin: [00:27:31] and the support industries tend to come around those. Right? Correct.
[00:27:34] Craig Scharton: [00:27:34] Yeah. And they say, yeah. And then employees will spin off like Dell as fun off thousands of. Of companies in Austin. so you’re not really there’s there’s are we forget about, we have a role in, in doing and growing our economy.
[00:27:49] We think it should be a person in that city, but it’s really up to all of us to make sure that we’re spreading the word and that your local base
[00:27:58] Tim Goetz: [00:27:58] is covered. You [00:28:00] know,
[00:28:00] Craig Scharton: [00:28:00] we, we all need to be your champions.
[00:28:02] Tim Goetz: [00:28:02] I, I believe
[00:28:04] Paul Swearengin: [00:28:04] what do you think, Tim? The applesauce building downtown. You ready?
[00:28:08] Tim Goetz: [00:28:08] Heck. Yeah, man. I just need that fortune 1000.
[00:28:10] Just give me, give my team a couple more years. All right.
[00:28:14] Paul Swearengin: [00:28:14] Very good. Let me hit one of these things here
[00:28:16] Two Guys Open: [00:28:16] now on two guys talking for us. Now it’s time to know your guest
[00:28:21] Paul Swearengin: [00:28:21] time to know our guest.
[00:28:23] Craig Scharton: [00:28:23] Know who the heck are you?
[00:28:26] Tim Goetz: [00:28:26] I’m Tim.
[00:28:28] Craig Scharton: [00:28:28] Where’d you grow up?
[00:28:30] Paul Swearengin: [00:28:30] And what high school did you go to
[00:28:33] Craig Scharton: [00:28:33] high school? Did you go to, if, if we know that one and tell us about your family and all of that good stuff.
[00:28:38] Tim Goetz: [00:28:38] Alright. Yeah. So I was born and raised in Tilbury. so I went up through the culinary schools, at least just before high school. So I went to garden elementary in live Oak middle school and to Larry. And then, just before high school, my family moved down to orange County. So I went to, we went from Tilbury to Irvine and it was, [00:29:00] there was a culture shock there.
[00:29:01]but, I went to university high school in Irvine. and then, shortly after finishing high school to me, the Valley was home and all my, my extended family were, are from mostly from Dinuba and Reedley and this area. And so. shortly after high school, I moved back up here and went to Fresno state and then in this area ever since.
[00:29:22] So, got my accounting degree at Fresno state. and, ultimately, met my wife here. she played soccer at Fresno state state. She was on the soccer team. got married, been married about 13 years and we’ve got four kids, so I’ve got four daughters.
[00:29:40] Paul Swearengin: [00:29:40] Wow. Wow.
[00:29:42] Tim Goetz: [00:29:42] That’s like the Yahtzee over here. so is there a three, five, 10 and 11?
[00:29:48] Paul Swearengin: [00:29:48] Oh my goodness. You’ve had quite a busy household over the last
[00:29:51] Tim Goetz: [00:29:51] three months. Oh my goodness. Right?
[00:29:54] Paul Swearengin: [00:29:54] Yep. That is amazing. So how did you end up at the well then?
[00:30:00] [00:30:00] Tim Goetz: [00:30:00] Yeah, so, that was about, I, let’s see, I finished school in 2003 and, I was living in these apartments Jackson park place to up at Herndon and Cedar.
[00:30:11] And, we ended up having, I ended up having a ton of friends there, anytime an apartment would open up. We would ask the property manager to hold it and we would fill it. So we ended up having 16 apartments or friends, you know, and, yeah, that was a, just a big kind of college group. And, that was about the time, you know, Brad was getting going college, you know, that spinning Northwest service off.
[00:30:32] And, I remember getting invited to kind of one of the early ones, early services at the well, and I attended there. you know, I think, how I ended up working there. I, I, I, I always worked with my hands, so I was worked at a hardware store through high school and did construction through college.
[00:30:49] And, I got my accounting degree, just daydreaming of working in the air conditioning and, out of, out of college. I ended up getting a job. I was an auditor at Deloitte and Touche [00:31:00] for a couple of years here in Fresno and I have the air conditioning and, something was missing. And so I talked to Brad and, he, he thought with my background in construction, he got me connected with Tony Miranda habitat.
[00:31:13] So I started going down to habitat. I was every Saturday for three years and I would drag as many dudes as I could with me out there. And. I, you know, that’s just what I did to kind of continue to work with my hands on the weekends and Deloitte it in the, during the week. And that was also in the nonprofit space.
[00:31:31] And, at one point, you know, I, the well was going to do a missions trip to Laos and it was a roofing project. And so Brad, he knew me. He just knew that I was. This habitat for humanity guy that would drag a bunch of dudes to go do roofs and habitat. And so he asked if I would go on this roofing project trip, which I did.
[00:31:51] And, getting back from that, he said, you know, he said, Hey, he may be, do you want to come and be our missions guy part time? And [00:32:00] so I ended up taking it. I, and that’s, you know, about the time I, that’s what I meant already for the, And, some other folks that were kind of missional in the city at that point in time.
[00:32:09] And, that’s how I kinda ended up, ended up at the, well, I it’s, it was funny. There is, I was, I was a CPA, a business minded guy. I don’t know that I would consider myself a pastor and here I am the missions guy. And at some point it was shortly after there. The well, bought that, the North campus and maple and knees, and it was a big construction project was the start of it.
[00:32:30] So they, well. Tim do you want to run our construction project? And we can do with volunteers and like, sure. So I did that and, the well grew very quickly and it was time to hire a facility guide now that we have a building and Tim knows the facilities. So maybe they report to Tim, the missions guy. And, then it came time to hire an accountants on staff and I’m like, Hey, do you want, would you like help interviewing somebody?
[00:32:55] And they’re like, why would we have the construction? Fishing sky helped with the interview. And, [00:33:00] so anyhow, I, it was kind of a funny back entrance there, but, I enjoyed working with Brad and, we were a lot alike and, and, and, he, at some point it was just a good fit and, executive pastor there for about four or five years after that.
[00:33:18] Craig Scharton: [00:33:18] That’s great. Hey, so, Paul and I noticed that there was an article in the business journal, I think just today. I think when I started the email, what was, what was that about?
[00:33:29] Tim Goetz: [00:33:29] Yeah. So, you know, we’re trying to, you know, figure out how can we help. and I think a lot of people are doing that in, the churches in the nonprofit space were hit pretty hard with the COBIT and the shelter in place, not being able to have services on the churches and the nonprofits.
[00:33:47] Aren’t able to have their fundraising events or meet with people and, and. And kind of stay engaged with their donors. and so, one of the things we thought is, man, what if we, kind of give away the software, [00:34:00] until things are a little different and hopefully better. so we went out and said, Hey, how about if it’s a dollar a month?
[00:34:05]and then after a few months, out in the future, hopefully things are different at that point in time, you can choose whether or not you can afford it at that point and want to become a customer. Or, or not, you’re only in it $3 at that point. if it’s, if it’s still hard and it was still hard, reach out to us, and we’ll take care of you.
[00:34:23] So that’s kinda been our approach since the beginning. so yeah, it’s a dollar a month, for the platform and that’s basically everything. there’s a couple of add ons that typically cost extra. And examples of that is our texting, given our bulk texting products. And so those were saying. Hey, those are also free for the next three months.
[00:34:44] If you sign up at this thing, that’s a dollar, there’s no commitments. If, if they, you know, if it’s not a fit or there’s just really no commitment, either on their end, it’s pay $3 and get to use it and see if it’ll help. And if not, then that’s okay.
[00:34:59] Craig Scharton: [00:34:59] I [00:35:00] noticed too, you have a really good program on how to start a nonprofit.
[00:35:04] I saw Dan Kimball posted that one time and I took a look at it and I was really well done. Yeah, anyone out there that’s thinking about starting, it is just, you know, a step by step, easy thing you can do in a relatively short amount of time.
[00:35:22] Tim Goetz: [00:35:22] I thought that was great. Yeah. Yeah. We’ve tried to put out some content there on starting a nonprofit.
[00:35:27] And how do you build a business plan for a nonprofit and how do you fundraise Dan? Campbell’s helped us with a lot of those fundraising kind of tips and videos and content. There’s some good stuff out there
[00:35:38] Paul Swearengin: [00:35:38] on your side. It’s a, you’ve got sports organizations, PTA homeowner’s association. So there, there are a lot of different genres that you’re reaching out
[00:35:48] Tim Goetz: [00:35:48] to there.
[00:35:50] That’s right. Yeah. We’ve got, we’ve got animal shelters. We have cities, city governments that use us, anyone that can use fund accounting software. so yeah, we, we spend the whole, the whole gamut.
[00:36:00] [00:36:00] Paul Swearengin: [00:36:00] So if somebody wants to do the dollar a month thing, how do they get your real quick while we’re around that subject?
[00:36:04] Tim Goetz: [00:36:04] Yeah, just head to the website. It’s apple.com and click the start a pretrial. It’s a 15 day free trial. And then once you’re in the software, there’s a button that says, Hey, I’d like to do this for a dollar a month and you click that and then that’s it. It logs that you’re now that’s your rate for three months.
[00:36:22]cancel any time and if not, then enter a card and keep going.
[00:36:27] Craig Scharton: [00:36:27] Well, I think there, I mean, there’s just no, excuse, all of our local guys need to be signing up. I mean, just, you know, it’s like, I went into one of our economic development agencies and they weren’t carrying local coffee and I’m like, okay, you gotta do better than this, my God to like, I mean, and if one thing that, you know, the coven situation pointed out is, you know, if you’re outsourcing everything.
[00:36:53] You know, that supply can be disrupted and, and, then you don’t have anyone who could make medicine or [00:37:00] coffee or whatever
[00:37:01] Paul Swearengin: [00:37:01] you’re saying. We should eat local as we go back out to restaurants. Craig
[00:37:05] Craig Scharton: [00:37:05] absolutely locally owned.
[00:37:07] Paul Swearengin: [00:37:07] What if now what if a local guy owns a franchise though? Aren’t we
[00:37:11] Craig Scharton: [00:37:11] great.
[00:37:11] Paul Swearengin: [00:37:11] Okay.
[00:37:13] Craig Scharton: [00:37:13] That’s that’s a good thing.
[00:37:14] Paul Swearengin: [00:37:14] So we can do that then. Cause, like, I know, I know the people that own Coldstone, so we can go to Coldstone then.
[00:37:20] Craig Scharton: [00:37:20] Well, it’s better. It’s better to go to the full
[00:37:23] Tim Goetz: [00:37:23] local ownership. Okay.
[00:37:25]Craig Scharton: [00:37:25] you know, go to go to our friends, over at ampersand, that’s the best choice next would be franchise, but still a pretty good chunk of money goes out of town to the franchise.
[00:37:35] But that’s better than a chain would be your last, because you are sending your profit from those purchases to some other city. And we don’t even get a thank you note back. I’ll ask
[00:37:47] Tim Goetz: [00:37:47] people, you know, I guess
[00:37:50] Craig Scharton: [00:37:50] I’ll see that. I’ll say that. Go to yard house and I go work. Where’s the, where is the headquarters of yard now?
[00:37:57] I don’t know. I go, exactly. You don’t even know [00:38:00] where you’re sending your
[00:38:00] Tim Goetz: [00:38:00] profits to like, let’s keep it all by
[00:38:02] Paul Swearengin: [00:38:02] the way. The food’s awful. So don’t go there. But did I say that out loud? I’m sorry, but it’s true. And the thing, what is it, Craig, then when you spend that dollar with a local company, it circulates how many times?
[00:38:14] Six
[00:38:14] Craig Scharton: [00:38:14] times or so. And people, you know, for every 10% that they shift toward purchasing
[00:38:20] Tim Goetz: [00:38:20] locally.
[00:38:21] Craig Scharton: [00:38:21] And what’s funny is people go though, I can’t spend a hundred percent locally. No, if you change from 40% of 50%, it comes into
[00:38:30] Tim Goetz: [00:38:30] hundreds
[00:38:30] Craig Scharton: [00:38:30] of millions of dollars that flows through our, our economy. It really doesn’t take that much and we do the best.
[00:38:37] We make the best stuff in the world here, so.
[00:38:39] Paul Swearengin: [00:38:39] Alright, so app close, go, go get it. Tim, what else are you? Have you seen anything in this not-for-profit world? That’s that is shifting as we were talking about before, what, what are the changes that could happen in these spaces coming out of COVID time?
[00:38:56] Tim Goetz: [00:38:56] Yeah, you know, I’m not sure.
[00:38:57] I think that the churches, it’s still a little [00:39:00] early to see what’s going to happen there. And, I’m imagining. you know, I’m not sure if they’ll, the churches will keep their streaming services and then people will continue to participate in that service instead of going person or not. That is yet to be determined and same kind of with the fundraising and the nonprofits.
[00:39:19]the one thing I will say, about the nonprofit space though, is. The nonprofit space is full of just passionate people. Like these are people that I would not discount as far as getting through tough times. they are not trying to make a ton of money. they are people who think there’s something wrong with the world.
[00:39:39] And so they’re going to do something about it. and it is very respectable and it’s hard not to get behind that. and those people, I think, are the people that are going to continue to rally they’ll figure out a way. and they may have some tough times ahead. but I don’t think they’re going anywhere.
[00:39:58] So that’s my, my [00:40:00] guests on, on it at least.
[00:40:03] Craig Scharton: [00:40:03] Oh, it’d be interesting to see it’s all unchartered territory.
[00:40:06] Tim Goetz: [00:40:06] Yeah.
[00:40:07] Paul Swearengin: [00:40:07] I mean, I think in the church world, this is sort of forced innovation and there’s been. Sort of this panic for a long time of, Hey, the millennials aren’t coming to church. They’re not going to be that four Sunday a month churchgoer.
[00:40:22] And so I really see this, I think this is going to be beneficial longterm for the church world, but, but anybody that thinks, okay, it’s going to be the same on the other side of this. And it’s crazy. Cause I think it’s yeah, it was going to have to change anyway. And so now I think is a great time for it to change coming out of the, out of the other side of this.
[00:40:42] Tim Goetz: [00:40:42] Right. Yep.
[00:40:43] Paul Swearengin: [00:40:43] Yeah. I mean, I know one of my friends, they, they used to do three services on Sunday morning and the pastor famous telling me never again, well, we do three live in house services on a Sunday morning. One of those is going to be online forever more so. [00:41:00] Yeah.
[00:41:01] Tim Goetz: [00:41:01] Yeah. And the tr the, the nonprofit space in general has kind of trailed behind on the technology side and the innovation side behind the business space.
[00:41:10] And. I think this has been a very, a big equalizer, and I think that has forced kind of adoption of technology and innovation, across everybody. so I do think that that has been good. You know, my kids, go to, a manual, and they had to go to zoom classes and they didn’t have a subscription before COVID and now they do, and now they know what they can do with that.
[00:41:32] And, So, yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m hopeful that this has helped kind of bring that the nonprofits and churches kind of current with technology. We’re all in the same. We’re all at home right now.
[00:41:45] Paul Swearengin: [00:41:45] So, yeah. All right. Anything else we need to know about? Apolis
[00:41:51] Tim Goetz: [00:41:51] I just give us a go. so@apolis.com,
[00:41:55] Craig Scharton: [00:41:55] right? We’re going to promote the heck out of it.
[00:41:57] Paul Swearengin: [00:41:57] Absolutely.
[00:41:59] Two Guys Open: [00:41:59] Now we [00:42:00] take it home with Craig and Paul on the final countdown. Here’s Paul and Craig
[00:42:05] Paul Swearengin: [00:42:05] what’s on your mind today, Craig?
[00:42:07] Craig Scharton: [00:42:07] Well, I’m going to stick with this local economy thing last week. we were very lucky to have our trees trim too, which I was very happy about. when Brian file as our neighbor and they had done history a week before and they dropped off.
[00:42:24] 20 cubic yards of a, at his place. Yeah. Malts and I was, I told them I coveted my neighbor’s mulch. So when they got over to our street, I, I, I went out to talk to the guy. Yeah. Again, greatly
[00:42:41] Tim Goetz: [00:42:41] appreciative to have my trees
[00:42:43] Craig Scharton: [00:42:43] trimmed, but started talking to the guy and that he lives in Hollister. And the guy next to him lives in Milpitas and the guy who was working next to him lives in Salinas and another one lived in Gilroy.
[00:42:57] And so I go, where’s your [00:43:00] company headquartered? And he said, Sandy, I got to Santa Clara. I’m like the city of Fresno. Can’t find a look, local tree trimming company. And so of course I posted something on Facebook about it. How irritating that was, you know, there’s a lot of things we don’t know make cars here.
[00:43:18] So you’re going to buy a car from out of town. Your computer’s probably going to come from some other place, but you know, we’re talking about social justice issues over here. And then as you leak money out of your economy unnecessarily, you are, you have fewer jobs and fewer opportunities and those kinds of things.
[00:43:38] So. they come over here for three weeks, the owner, the company rents a house, they buy them groceries that they stay there for three weeks and then they all go back home with a, with a paycheck. And so of course, you know, I got the typical city response, you know, the bidding process and, and that kind of thing.
[00:43:58] And, and it [00:44:00] just, I just want to say that shows a complete and total lack of creativity. To me, if you’re just going to like throw out a notice and take the lowest bid instead of like calling all the contractors in and cause a lot of times you’ll find out there’s a bonding requirement. That’s
[00:44:17] Tim Goetz: [00:44:17] too big for
[00:44:17] Craig Scharton: [00:44:17] them.
[00:44:18] But if you can get to two or three of them together, they can meet, meet that threshold. Then you could talk to them and find ways to do it. Or you could take that budget amount and you could create a nonprofit and you could train people how to become tree trimmers and they could. Have a skill and develop,
[00:44:35] Tim Goetz: [00:44:35] you know,
[00:44:35] Paul Swearengin: [00:44:35] and use that plus software
[00:44:38] Craig Scharton: [00:44:38] Zappos software, for sure.
[00:44:39] And that’s
[00:44:40] Tim Goetz: [00:44:40] how it all works. Right.
[00:44:42]Craig Scharton: [00:44:42] so anyway, so those kinds of things, and then other people were posting. Yeah. Target’s repairing the roof. I’m running a house to the workers here. Cause there’s.
[00:44:53] Tim Goetz: [00:44:53] They’re
[00:44:53] Craig Scharton: [00:44:53] they’re hiring it out of town roofing company. I’m like we have re roofing contractors here. Like we’ve got [00:45:00] to figure this stuff out.
[00:45:01] So that’s, what’s on my mind today. I’m,
[00:45:02] Tim Goetz: [00:45:02] I’m a, I’m a grumpy old
[00:45:05] Craig Scharton: [00:45:05] local economic development guy
[00:45:08] Paul Swearengin: [00:45:08] because Fresno drives you bonkers.
[00:45:10] Craig Scharton: [00:45:10] Yeah. Sometimes more than others.
[00:45:12] Tim Goetz: [00:45:12] And that really did
[00:45:14] Craig Scharton: [00:45:14] the short drive to bonkers.
[00:45:16] Paul Swearengin: [00:45:16] Tim, do you want to go next? Do you have something on your mind?
[00:45:20] Tim Goetz: [00:45:20] You know, I think what’s on my mind right at the moment is, is nothing quite as noble is crazy thing there.
[00:45:28] I think I live up in the foothills and, that’s how I kind of work with my hands now. So I run a software company during the day and nights and weekends. I ranch, you know, a couple of hours ago, my wife came in with my two oldest kids and she looks at them and says, Do you want it? You need to tell your dad what happened.
[00:45:50] And I’m like, Oh no, what did they do? They stole, they stole the car. I don’t know what they do. And one of them says, well, [00:46:00] so I wanted, I really wanted to pet the cow, but it was running away. And so I was thinking if I lasso it, then I can have it. So there is now a lasso around one of the cow’s feet. That is out in the pasture that I’ve got to go figure out how to remove a lasso from a cow’s foot in the middle of the pasture.
[00:46:23] That’s skiddish. You know, I don’t know how to do that. So that’s thinking about now is walking down there as soon as we’re here,
[00:46:33] Paul Swearengin: [00:46:33] that is a, that is a classic. Sorry, go ahead, Craig.
[00:46:39] Craig Scharton: [00:46:39] You get some of the video that
[00:46:41] Tim Goetz: [00:46:41] I think, no, not a chance.
[00:46:43] Craig Scharton: [00:46:43] I think we got at least a million views on this
[00:46:45] Tim Goetz: [00:46:45] one.
[00:46:47] Paul Swearengin: [00:46:47] I was thinking that that is a classic car cat dog catches cars scenario right there.
[00:46:52] What exactly happens when you last saw the cow? Yeah, that’s great,
[00:46:56] Tim Goetz: [00:46:56] right? Yeah. That’s also, I think a classic. [00:47:00] Being that a software CEO does in their afternoons. Right. Totally normal, totally normal.
[00:47:08] Paul Swearengin: [00:47:08] All right. Mine’s a little bit heavier in this environment. I, you know, I’ve, I’ve been encouraging people to get.
[00:47:14] Educated, on just systemic racism and, and making some recommendations. And so through all of that, I’ve been planning on seeing the documentary 13th and my daughter who just came home from college and she’s our social justice warrior. And she was incensed that we had not seen 13th yet the documentary that was nominated for an Academy award.
[00:47:39] And so if you haven’t seen it yet, you’ve gotta see it. It is. I don’t even real, I don’t have the words to quite explain it is it is, earth shaking. And, just to see at the end of the documentary, they, you know, of course many have heard of Emmett till and how he was beaten beyond recognition and found his [00:48:00] body.
[00:48:00] And his mother insisted that the casket be open at his funeral and they took pictures and showed them in jet magazine to. To give a feel of how brutal the beating was of her son and so many other African American when parents and family members gave permission for the shootings of their family members and their deaths to be shown.
[00:48:22] And so you just watch a series. Of African American men dying, toward the end of the documentary. And it’s excruciatingly painful to watch as it’s supposed to be. And so I just say, if you haven’t watched 13th yet, which is on Netflix and it may be available other places. It is a must watch if you’re watching what’s going on in our culture today and saying, why is this happening?
[00:48:50] 13th is a must watch. And the number 13 is about the 13th amendment, which was the amendment that made. slavery [00:49:00] abolished in America, but it has this, phrase in it that says, unless you’ve committed a crime, I think is, is something to that effect. And so that exception has been used through history to incarcerate blacks that we could no longer in slave through slavery.
[00:49:17] And so anyway, that’s the documentary. And I say, if you haven’t seen it yet with what’s going on in, in our culture today, it is a it’s, it’s a requirement for everyone out there to
[00:49:28] see.
[00:49:29] Craig Scharton: [00:49:29] Alright.
[00:49:30] Paul Swearengin: [00:49:30] Alright. Good stuff.
[00:49:33]Craig Scharton: [00:49:33] Good stuff guys. Thanks for doing what you’re doing, Tim.
[00:49:37] Tim Goetz: [00:49:37] Yeah, you guys as well. Thank you for having me on.
[00:49:39] Craig Scharton: [00:49:39] Thanks for investing in our community.
[00:49:42]


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